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"You can't fill a large stadium physically. You have to fill it with music." -- Adam |
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"You can't fill a large stadium physically. You have to fill it with music." -- Adam |
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Reading between the line (part 2)
Hot Press,
March 11, 2009
I spoke to Ronnie Vannucci from The Killers recently...
He's a great drummer! He was telling me that the band put much of their new album together via e-mail, just sending each other their various parts and working independently of each other. Do U2 do much of that? It's not as set in stone as that. We use that technology if Edge is in another part of the world, as I say, and I'll be somewhere else, and we'll work together. But what we don't do is we don't go back and forth by email. I'll send the idea, Edge sends his idea, and then we'll come together as a band and thrash it out. And we know what we're talking about. So we all get a sense very early on of where the song is going. And it goes and meanders for a long period of time, and in the last two weeks of a record is when you actually realise what you have and when things start to change and move on. The things you held onto as being so important, they disappear -- and that's part of the game. We don't write in a traditional fashion and we never have. We're not very good at writing in a traditional fashion. You're a bunch of amateurs! We are! But that's what separates us is that we are... if you want to pitch yourself against some of the greatest singer-songwriters or just songwriters, we're not songwriter-ly and if we try to be songwriter-ly what we do is we lose that thing that makes it special. Could U2 continue without any one member? I'm sure it could. Of course, it'd be very hard for U2 to continue without Bono, but think of Van Halen, think of AC/DC. But I don't know. Do I see myself doing this into my '70s? No, I don't. There will be a time. Whether that's on an individual basis or a band decision. But right now I just think it's very exciting to be out there making music. Making music and being creative is an incredibly amazing thing to be able to do. And the fact that people still want to hear what you do and people still want to come and see you. Why would you give that up? It's a very hard thing to give up. And it's not the money, it's not the success, it's just the challenge of being creative. Within the band, it's the creative thing that drives people. It's not being at the top of your game. Will we ever be as good as so and so? You can make all the comparisons, but I think that's an error. You can only be as good as your last record. It's a cliche, but it's true. You recently told an interviewer that you didn't like seeing Bono palling around with people whom you consider to be war criminals, i.e. Bush and Blair. Was he upset with you? I don't know if he was. I didn't discuss it with him. Bono is a big boy who understands that there are differences of opinion and there always have been. That's just the way it is. We've been disagreeing on everything except music for more than 30 years. There is an impression out there that U2 is some kind of corporate team -- that we move together and we all agree on everything. But we don't. That's not how it works. It's important that people not understand that, but that they recognise that that is the case. That we all have a point of view and an opinion and we don't always agree. And I think the older you get the harder it is to find things that you agree on. And that's why having a creative basis is so important -- because that is something that we do agree on. Are the friendships within the band as strong as they were when you were in school? You ask yourself that question. Are you still friends in the same way as you were with people you knew when you were 15? You grow up, you have a family, things change. You're not a gang of four guys from Dublin kicking against the world anymore. Things have changed. Friendships have changed. They've developed. They're different. Speaking of family, you've now got three kids. Is it difficult combining a rock 'n' roll career with the responsibilities of fatherhood? It's a real challenge, just trying to get the balance right. I haven't figured it out. I really haven't figured it out. I don't know. There's a certain amount of guilt that goes along with being away for long periods or being in the studio. You're distracted a lot of your time. Of course, your priority is your family. But this is my job, this is what I do. I've been doing it since I was a kid and I'm not qualified to do anything else. And I hope my family are resilient enough to withstand the pressures and difficulties that my life imposes on them. It's not comfortable all the time. I guess Adam's the lucky one there. Well, I don't know if he's lucky. I think having kids is a really lucky thing. It's certainly different; it's a lifestyle choice. He's made a different choice. But he doesn't have the complications, you're right about that. It's not as complicated. What do you make of what's happening in Ireland at the moment? On an economic basis? If I thought it was just an Irish phenomenon, I'd be really concerned. But I think it's a worldwide phenomenon. So everybody is going through this. What was particularly difficult for Ireland is that it was so good for so long -- we couldn't be touched -- and to have it go so badly wrong so quickly is a shock to everyone. I don't know. I'm not an economist. I'm not even close to an economist. I hit things for a living. But I live in Ireland and when you see what's going on... (shakes head). In fairness, it's not going to hit you that badly... It doesn't particularly affect me the way it's affecting other people. I'm a rich rock star. There's a lot of people really hurting out there and I'm not in that position. We tour internationally, we sell records internationally. So there is a certain amount of discomfort, I have to say. I haven't felt that before. I didn't feel it in the '80s, but I'm definitely feeling it now. There's a different mood. Rich people and successful people are all lumped in together now -- and there's a perception that everyone's ripping everyone off. But I think that will settle down. I think it's a kneejerk reaction, and it'll find its level. Or else there'll be revolt. There's certainly a spirit of revolution in the air. There is revolution in the air, but the advantage we have is that the European community is a parachute. And it was a parachute in the very poor times, it was a parachute in the good times, and I think it'll be a parachute again. I take it you'll be voting "yes" to Lisbon in the second referendum? I was very confused about Lisbon. I thought it was very, very badly managed. I'm bipartisan as far as politics is concerned, but I thought the government did themselves no favours. I thought they didn't explain it properly. So you ended up with extremists. So I was very confused about what was in there. I think there are probably some very good things in there, I think there are some compromises. I think there should be an opportunity to vote on it again. I know that's a hard thing for some people to swallow, but I don't think the facts were laid out clearly last time. And I think it's very unfair to expect the people to vote on something when the facts are not obvious. I mean, I think there were government Ministers who hadn't even read the text of it. Brian Cowen admitted he hadn't read it! Well, I'm not being critical of him, but I just think there was a certain amount of complacency that happened around that time. You know, we're all on the pig's back so we can do what we want. That may have been an error. The chickens have come home to roost. They have -- and there's no glory in it at all. There's no glory in seeing people losing their jobs, people who've never been on the dole. You know, I've been on the dole. I didn't find it humiliating, I just found it difficult going in there and... oh, I dunno. It was just a difficult thing. But I was 17 at the time and there was a certain expectation that this was going to happen. So I was prepared for it. But the idea that you work in the IT sector, that you're an educated person -- all of a sudden your job's gone and you've gotta go on the dole. That must be hard. An assistant, the lovely Frances, knocks on the door and tells Larry it's time for his soundcheck. As he firmly shakes my hand ("Hope you got what you needed!") and prepares to go and hit things, Bono unexpectedly breezes in. I think he's just coming in to say hello, but actually the interview schedule's just been reshuffled. "There's been a change of plan," Frances informs me. "Turns out that Bono has an appointment immediately after the soundcheck so you won't be able to do your interview then. I'm afraid you'll have to do it now." Not a problem. Wearing his trademark yellow Armani shades and a tan leather jacket, the singer has a long black scarf wrapped around his neck. When he greets me, his voice is lower and huskier than normal. Olaf Tyaransen: Have you got a cold or a problem with your throat or something? Bono: I haven't had throat problems for years, I'm very happy to say. Are you still smoking cigarettes? It's easy, you know, I give them up every few months. It's one of those scenarios. But I only smoke when I'm drinking and, as you know, I don't drink very much (wry smile). It seems that you're mostly writing from the perspectives of other characters on this album... Well, it's not in any method-acting approach or anything like that. It was just a way of getting a fresh starting place. And I'd just kind of worn out my own biography or autobiography. The last two albums were very personal. And I'm not sure if I could bear it any more, let alone anyone else. The irony is, of course, as Oscar Wilde taught us, the mask reveals the man. So you end up in fancy dress revealing your true self. You end up in these very emotional places which you shouldn't understand, but somehow do. The closing track "Cedars of Lebanon" is written from the perspective of a war correspondent. I, of course, am not a war correspondent, but I've spent a lot of time in those bars with those bravest of men and women. And I've a very deep conviction that were I not doing what I'm doing now, I'd be doing what you are. And I'd probably be writing about music and art and all my other interests, but I can imagine I'd also find myself in some very unsafe places because that's my tendency. So I've a lot of not just sympathy but empathy for these people. And I've met them all over -- from Sarajevo to El Salvador to Addis Ababa. And they tend to be there for the highest-minded reasons, and then for other ones. They're usually very damaged people in my experience. Have you had a lot of experience with them? I've never been a war correspondent myself, but I've met a few of them. You've started wars! Ha, ha! You've been through your own wars and, indeed, documented them very well I might add. But yes, I've had some extraordinary conversations late into the night. But the self-immolation, self-destruction that we see in rock 'n' roll in late night taverns is a very different thing from the kind of damage of people who have witnessed lives extinguished for no good reason. And I obviously relate to that bit of it. What's your release from that? It dawned on me, and it was pointed out to me by my friends, and indeed by my missus, that I never ever talk about what I've been through when I'm off in faraway places and experiencing things I'd rather not. That's a phenomenon in itself, that you just don't want to bring it up. Though there is another phenomenon, which is when the trauma really kicks in and you can't stop talking about it. And I've met a few like that, too, who, at dinner, tell the most gruesome stories and don't know that you can no longer finish your meal now. So there are a few like that. You were recently quoted as saying that your other obligations and activities outside of the band have become so demanding that your creative day now ends at midday. What time do you usually get up in the morning? I get up at six. I was actually up at five this morning. But I'm up early when I'm working. Unless I'm out. Then I go to bed at six! But I don't go out as much as I used to, hardly at all. But if I have any moments of clarity, it's in those hours. And that's when I write and that's when I read. Now, when I say I'm not being creative after midday, that wouldn't mean to suggest that there's nothing creative in rehearsals (laughs). Or that there's nothing creative in taking care of business. It's just not as creative. And the stillness of the morning before kids get up is a very, very powerful moment for me. And then when they get up, I've got to take them to school, or make their breakfast at the very least, and then get back to work. And then my head gets filled with all the other ideas and I don't think as clearly as I do in the morning. I saw you in The Clarence the other week. Two days later I opened a newspaper and you were in Washington. Then I read you were in France somewhere, and the next day you turned up at an event in Dublin. Last weekend you were playing at the Grammys in LA. So my question is -- exactly how many Bonos are there? There's a factory! You're like Saddam Hussein with all of his body doubles! Yeah... thanks! For the analogy. But the band, when they saw me getting busy, opened a factory. It's just there at the back of Tallaght. And there's various different ones and they're being used for different occasions. But I think, unlike Saddam Hussein, they're hoping I get assassinated! (laughs) You also recently said that you're in a band with three people who persecute you as a national sport. How bad does the persecution get? It's humour, really. It's a lot of fun being in U2. Unless things are going poorly; then people tend to lose their sense of humour. But if things are going well and we're on the crest of a wave then they're really funny guys. All of them -- even Larry! Larry recently called your friend Tony Blair a war criminal. How do you feel about that? Well, it's a very serious accusation and I wish he was joking, but I'm sure he wasn't. I think it's very hard to use those words, but I suppose we do all the time. We advance tirades against politicians and people who are in positions of power. And I guess that just goes with their job. And if you take a decision like going to war in Iraq, you know that that's about the most important decision you're ever gonna make in your life. And he's ready to be judged by that decision and he knows that some people think -- including I -- that it was a grand error. But, you know, I think Larry... it wasn't a surprise when I read it. It wasn't like, "Oh, Larry thinks this!" Of course he does! But he thinks Eamon Dunphy's a war criminal (laughs). Yourself and Paul McGuinness publicly differed on the Radiohead "honesty box" approach recently. You were quite in favour of their experiment. I was in favour of the instinct to find a new way of being with your audience. And I thought it was brave and courageous to try these things. I do not like the concept of giving music away free. Yet I don't think that's what they had in mind. They were swapping their music for a relationship with their website. Now, I don't know how many people continued to take it free from LimeWire, but I would consider that a bit of a betrayal -- and apparently there were many hundreds of thousands who continued. And that's not good. Can you elaborate? It shows a lack of respect for the band's wishes. I don't think music should be free. And I think the music business has become like lambs to the slaughter. It's very easy to say, "what has the music business ever done for us? They overpriced their CDs in the '80s and the '90s so fuck 'em!" But when we say the music business, we're also including artists, bands, lighting people, sound engineers, people who run rehearsal studios. And they're also gonna be out of a job, while the technologists and telecoms and whoever else walk away with the booty. You've seen the strike in Hollywood over the digital rights by writers. Digital rights of the digital space, that was what that strike was about. Because they're very smart and they knew what was coming. But unfortunately the music business -- and I include us in it -- are not that smart. So now we're back, if we're not careful, to playing troubadours at the table in the castle of the king. We should've been sitting at that table. Or owned the castle! Own the castle! That's always been our modus. And decide what's for dinner. And it better not be you! (laughs) Which it absolutely most certainly is at the moment. The Irish government have just reduced their promised African aid again. How do you feel about that? Well, it's three times now over the last 18 months. And I just spent the morning with [Bishop] Desmond Tutu, and we were talking about it. It's a very difficult situation for a rich rock star to comment on. These are unimaginable circumstances that this government, and indeed every government, find themselves in. Whilst Ireland is in a bigger mess than Germany, it is a matter of great pride to the Germans -- and to me who worked with them -- that Angela Merkel for 2010's budget increased aid by (EU)900million. This year. Same as she did in 2009 and same as she did in 2008, for the 2010 budget. And made a beautiful speech about this being the point to stand with the poorest of the poor. President Obama has also committed to doubling aid -- originally by 2012, but certainly by the time he leaves office. How he gets there, we don't know. We've gotta trust that they'll get there. Same with this [Irish] government. They have enormous respect around the world, the Irish government. Seriously? Last year I think we were No. 7 on the charts of leadership on these issues. And there's a broader conversation to be had, which is what's really happening is capitalism has gone up on trial. The project, so-called, of globalisation has gone up on trial. And there needs to be some honesty about it -- both positive as well as negative. How do you mean? It is clear that globalisation has brought more people out of extreme poverty than any other idea in the history of civilisation. It is also clear that it started to not work for the bottom billion a few years ago, and needed to be rethought with their inclusion. Examples, the WTO [World Trade Organisation] talks breaking down and really first tier economies, second tier economies getting all the airspace, and nobody really giving a shit about the billion people living on a dollar a day. That was the first clue that globalisation wasn't working for everybody. But up until this point, you could always say that every year the middle classes were growing -- look at India. Wherever you looked, it seemed like globalisation was working. And whatever happens now, the rethinking and retooling of this model had better include the majority of people who do not live in the west. Or else there will be some other kind of turbulence or revolt. This is a really important time. What do you suggest doing? What we would suggest in the One campaign -- DATA is now folding into the One campaign -- or what our brainiacs in our policy teams are saying is that this is a time in a global stimulus package to include a percentage for the developing economies. It could be 1%, it could be something small. But remember when we did Live 8, people were saying, "$50billion? That's outrageous! $25billion for Africa by 2010? That's outrageous! These are ridiculous numbers! You and Geldof are mad!" Well, now that you see trillion dollar packages happening, do we look greedy then? I don't think so. There needs to be new people involved in the global economy. It's good for everyone if Africa comes through. We saw what happened when India started to develop. India has a middle-class now of over 200 million people. And that's one of the reasons why there was such swagger in the City of London and on Wall Street, because Russia was coming in, blah, blah, blah. So we need Africa. It shouldn't be seen as aid, it should be seen as investment. Finally, not to be boring on this subject because I know you're here to talk about music, but it's always after crises, and major, major catastrophes, that we reboot the thinking globally. You saw it after the First World War with the League of Nations, after the Second World War with the United Nations, the IMF, the World Bank, the Breton Woods Institute, IMF, World Bank, the WTO. All those things after 9/11, the sort of Ground Zero and the second Ground Zero just up the road from each other on Wall Street, and the fallout from both of those events -- geopolitical strife and economic turmoil -- this is one of those moments. And I think this is a moment to re-imagine what the whole thing should look like. (CONTINUED IN PART THREE...) © Hot Press, 2009.
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